The reason that the archive wasn't in the first person of the CRO of PRINSENDAM was that Jack van der Zee died around 2002. The archive is in my name because I took the time to assemble this material (and others) and upload it to the Library.

Nothing of our history (except for Titanic info) was on the Internet and nothing at all about Prinsendam.

I thought people might enjoy the recording. I still have the original tape, it's in an official USCG cassette box.

NEW COMMENTS TO themac60.

Hello,

I never heard the XXX from PJTA, I only heard it by listening to the cassette tape someone made from the "Turtle Logger" slow speed magnetic tape recorder at COMMSTA KODIAK. Both the XXX recording and the SOS recording are unedited and are exactly the way they are on the tape. I did make a shorter version for my web page on http://qsl.net/n1ea and I shortened the autoalarm sequence. I have no doubt that NMC could hear and could be heard in the location of PJTA and WGOA. During the day, I was called by KLB near Seattle, WA and he had messages for me which I received directly on 500 kHz.

What may have happened is that what you say happened isn't on the XXX recording, but happened after the portion of the recording that I have. I wasn't on the air at the time, I was sleeping after the autoalarm was sent prior to the SOS.

PJTA as you say may have called you after he called NOJ, but I have no knowledge of that.

The person in control of the SOS is the ship sending the SOS. Later when PJTA was on battery power after losing both main and emergency generators, I asked if I could take over the SOS. I never heard NMC that night at all. My logbook doesn't show NMC at all, I did hear NMO once or twice with a safety broadcast. Richard Singer was R/O on EXXON NEW ORLEANS/WNDM and he sent his log to me: https://ia800604.us.archive.org/30/items/SosMsPrinsendamOctober41980/WNDM_SOS_LOG.pdf It doesn't show NMC at all.

At one time I had the SOS log of COMMSTA Kodiak, but there was a flood where my papers were stored about 1995, all my archives were lost (became a soggy mess of paper). I had the teleprinter traffic between District and NOJ. There was a fellow who was a RM who was in Juneau who turned on a receiver and copied directly what was happening on 500 kHz (amazing his superiors that he learned what was going on faster than the teletype circuit!).

I just saw this comment today, so I thought I'd answer it. I get so much email, I miss notifications.

I hope this explains why NMC wasn't mentioned. I never heard NMC at all that night. That doesn't say that while I was asleep and PJTA was sending CQ XXX to NOJ that he didn't call NMC afterwards. I would have done that if I thought NOJ wasn't a good operator and I had a fire, in a heart beat I'd do it.

73

DR

73

DR

Hi Mike,

I have a few questions/comments about your review. I'll include quotes from your message that I found interesting.

Everyone please note that we are discussing a system that is now OBSOLETE and no longer in use.

1.) “NOJ to qta (cancel) xxx and called sos with my call sign NMC included.”

a) Mike, this does not agree with International and U.S. Radio Regulations. An initial distress call is sent as an “All Stations” call and is NOT to be directed to any particular station.

2) “ PJTA told NOJ to qta xxx and then sent a bt and called NMC. This was followed by an auto alarm on 500khz followed by PJTA distress message which I "rogered" all according to strict procedures."

a) This does not agree with the Radio Regulations. The Radiotelegraph AutoAlarm signal was sent BEFORE the distress call and message. You are saying a call came before the AutoAlarm signal. This could not be correct if procedure was followed.

I sailed for years as Radio Officer on U.S. Flag vessels. I would NEVER have done something like this, because it would have broken procedure AND wasted time.

3) "Why would a cw op sitting a watch on 500khz hear an auto alarm followed by a distress message and make no response to this at all"

a) Well, it depends.

When you heard an AutoAlarm signal on 500 kc/s followed by a distress call/message from a ship, International and U.S. radio regulations state that stations a great distance away will LISTEN first before acknowledging. This was to allow stations closer to the distressed vessel and in a better position to assist the opportunity to acknowledge first. It also helped avoid interfering with closer stations. So you would listen for a minute or so before acknowledging if you were NOT in the immediate vicinity of a vessel in distress.

If the distress occurred when other ship stations were OFF WATCH, the rules state that the AutoAlarm signal will be sent, followed by 2 minutes of silence to allow other stations receiving the signal to go on watch. I actually experienced this myself several times, on the receiving side.

BUT - the rules state that all distress procedures CAN BE ABBREVIATED if time is short or if they are not necessary. Herein lies the importance of a good Radio Officer... he HAD TO USE HIS HEAD and be aware of all these conditions at all times.

I would NEVER have abbreviated the AutoAlarm signal. It had a dual purpose. Yes, it did operate the AutoAlarm receiver and ring bells to alert a R/O who was off watch. BUT - it was also an "attention getter" even when all ships in your vicinity were ON WATCH. It would clear 500 kc/s IMMEDIATELY.

Sadly today, the R/O is put down by a lot of people who do not understand the importance of that job. You had to know what you were doing, and you had to be on the job. You had to be able to make good decisions, and you had to know the Radio Regulations backward and forward. It was a high responsibility job. Anything different could very well have gotten people killed.

4) “I'm not aware of any law or regulation that states a reply to a distress call should only be given if your station is in a given geographical area.”

a) There are Radio Regulations that state so, but a distant station could acknowledge a distress signal IF, after listening, no acknowledgment to the distress alert had been heard. But only on the order of the Captain, as a distress acknowledgment IS a distress priority signal. Also, see my comments above.

5) “The only way I would not transmit is by order of my direct superior.”

a) Actually, the opposite is true. The only way you should have transmitted is by a direct order given by the Officer of the Watch at the time.

6) Why was this account here not in the first person - the R/O of PJTA.

a) I don't know for certain, but I've heard the man preferred NOT to talk too much about it outside of official investigations. He went over the Master's head doing what he did. He was absolutely RIGHT to do so, though. I believe the R/O of PJTA passed away quite a while ago. Also consider it had to have been a traumatic experience for the man, and some people prefer not to discuss such things.

7) The range of 500khz is well over 1000 mi. during the day - A LOT further at night.

a) That is not necessarily true. Range on 500 kc/s depends upon the type of shipboard antenna, power levels available, time of day, noise levels, and interference. Range on MF extends at night because the D layer of the ionosphere disappears and allows those signals to travel much farther.

Another big factor is the operator's ability to send readable code. A signal could have been QSA 5, QRN 0, QSB 0, but QRK 1 if the sending was poor. (QSD)

OTHER COMMENTS

I would like to see the NMC logbook from that day. Most likely, that logbook has lost or discarded.

The U.S. Coast Guard came to view the old 500 kc/s distress system very negatively. They stopped monitoring it long before the complete implementation of GMDSS.

They have also basically abandoned MF and HF. They don’t even monitor 2,187.5 kc/s DSC or 2,182 kc/s anymore, or at the very least there is an incomplete Sea Area A2 in the United States. I don't believe that the U.S. Coast Guard ever declared a Sea Area A2 for the United States. Someone please correct me if I am mistaken.

In U.S. waters, 2 MHz is strictly a ship-to-ship alerting system. Useful, but there is no ship-to-shore alerting available on 2 MHz.

VHF is a different story. The U.S.C.G. has a wonderful system for Sea Area A1 called "Rescue 21." It exceeds GMDSS requirements and covers most, if not all, of the U.S. coastline. The direction finding capabilities of this short-range system are excellent and can pin-point a vessel's radio signal in a fraction of a second.

If you do somehow get the logbook from NMC for the time period, please post a message here so we can see it as well.

QRU TKS 73 DE RICH EE

And hell I was there. On october 4 1980 I was a USCG radioman at Comsta San Francisco/NMC. I was on duty through the night with a shift running from 6 pm local thru 6 am local keeping a full time log on 500 khz. Initially the call was as an xxx which was being handled by Comsta Kodiak/NOJ. The operator at NOJ wasn't up to the task. I monitored every dit and dah. As I remember some of the qso between NOJ and PJTA was on one of the working frequencies. At some point I could tell the R/O onboard PJTA was becoming frustrated. He told NOJ to qta (cancel) xxx and called sos with my call sign NMC included. I immediately rogered his sos and established comms with him directly - later on rebroadcasting his distress as ddd sos. I stayed late on watch due to this situation. There were others on watch with me who were listening in. I don't remember it like it's being told here at all! All of what I am saying can be verified if that log is still in existence. If you're gonna tell a story - tell it like it happened. Don't lie and twist things to protect someone.

I'm calling you out buddy. You know damn well what happened. I remember hearing you - and if I heard you - you heard me. The PJTA opr. said qta xxx bt sos (3) NMC(3) de PJTA....The fact that NMC call sign does not appear anywhere lets me know that some black lies are being told here. You don't have to replay anything for me - you forget I was there. I heard the whole thing from beginning to end. The op at NOJ was a lid - the guy got frustrated and called me knowing I was up to the task.

Now you know that a US military log is property of the US government. I could no more have retained a copy of that log than fly to the moon. I have a good mind to make a freedom of information act request just to see if that log sheet still actually exists. I don't know how long they are required to retain logs directly relating to distress signals. I was under the impression it was indefinitely - but maybe not. The fact that all this documentation and recordings etc. have a total absence of NMC actually handling the SOS call from PJTA tells me something is wrong. NMC was the controlling station for this SOS - I know this because I was the operator on duty. I think I know who you are. I worked for JL Dezauche at WLO for 15 yrs. and in towards the bitter end we controlled KLB and WSC remotely from WLO - I distinctly remember Joe Chastain telling me about you. If I remember correctly we actually spoke on the phone several times. It's gonna be pretty hard to put something over on me because I WAS THERE!!! I know exactly what was send and what wasn't.

One more thing - I listened to the "recording" and what I heard was a lot of editing and things not even in chronological order. BS of EPIC proportions. Something is rotten in Denmark!


I will state again. I was on watch when this event happened. I know what I heard. It was my duty to transcribe every signal my equipment was capable of receiving on 500khz - which I did. PJTA told NOJ to qta xxx and then sent a bt and called NMC. This was followed by an auto alarm on 500khz followed by PJTA distress message which I "rogered" all according to strict procedures. I was in direct qso with PJTA on 500khz - anybody that says I wasn't is a damned liar. After the chief of my watch section (section delta) was notified of what was going on he made phone calls and sent teletype messages to the appropriate SAR agencies. I personally with my own little fingers sent a DDD SOS. Anybody that says this never happened is a damned liar. Telling me that my memory is failing me is ridiculous. I am 55 yrs old and am in full possession of my faculties. I don't have any recordings or logbooks in my possession because I was a military radioman. I can absolutely guarantee you that the event and every other communications received or transmitted by that facility was recorded. Unless my log sheet and these recording have been destroyed they exist and would verify what I am saying.

Dave - I will concede the "controlling the distress" issue to you. To me it's a matter of semantics (which coast station was actually in direct contact with PJTA - NOJ or NMC. )You've mentioned the logs of 350 vessels as well as your log and the log of that other fella, oh and KPH's log which was tragically lost in a flood. NMC had equipment in Astoria, Or. (formerly NMW) and Long Beach, Ca. (formerly NMQ) which we controlled remotely from our facility in Pt. Reyes station Ca. The equipment in Astoria was in prime location to monitor this event. What about NMC's log - aren't you interested in that log. Because if you are I can help you out there as I was the one who was keeping it at the time of this event. You can cite all the TV interviews etc. you want (we all know the ms is the "bastion of honesty"). Why is NMC's role in all this TOTALLY absent ? Weren't they in operation at the time of this event? In fact - I'll go on record here - I'd like to see NMC's log. Could you possibly help me out with that Dave. Given your access to all this other documentation you shouldn't have any problem getting your hands on it.

Bottom line dude - you're calling me a liar. OK fair enough. Put up or shut up. Let's see the log from NMC.

Just spoke with them on the phone. If such records exist they are not at that facility. Whatever paper records have probably been destroyed. Lucky for you I didn't make a copy. I have theories about this little hoax you are running. If it's the last thing I do I'll unravel it. Gotta admit you've run it pretty good all these years. It's a bunch of bullshit though and you know it. Hey internet - anybody reading this David Ring is a damned liar.

Why is it the only log sheets I see are yours and your buddy's? Why is it I don't see any comments on the interwebs but yours? Where is PJTA's log sheet. Where is NOJ's and NMO's? Why haven't you added anything besides what Dave Ring says. What are you covering up Dave? A short while ago you had an exchange with a member of my watch section Brian Fisher who mentioned my name (why is my name so important to you anyway?) - however, I can't find it at all now. When I operated KLB I worked with vessels near Dutch Harbor - so you're telling me I could hear Dutch from Seattle yet couldn't hear PJTA from Astoria? I heard him fine QSA5. 20db over buddy. I routinely heard WCC Chathom from Pt. Reyes. You've said some pretty hateful things about Coast Guard radiomen. Why? Who died and left you in charge of maritime communications? What are your bonafides as a maritime radio historian. You're saying NMC received an auto alarm followed by a distress message and made no reaction to it at all. Get real buddy. A coast guard radioman's duty would be to at least let the vessel in distress know that his signals were received - yet NMC made no contact with the vessel in distress at all? NOJ was not the only USCG facility in operation on Oct 4 1980. LET'S SEE NMC's LOG SHEET!!! It'll have my signature on it and I can verify at a glance if it's real and complete. KPH's log sheet destroyed in a flood? On what date? In what location? Give us something to go on besides what Dave Ring sez. Where is KFS;s log?
Nobody ever interviewed me. Why is it no matter what search engine I use and what search terms I use all I see is what YOU say? Every thing you have provided could EASILY have been doctored. What I don't get is WHY! What is this recorder you mention. Signals at NMC were recorded with a monster of a recorder that captured EVERYTHING - real time buddy. This machine was as big as a refrigerator - state of the art for it's time. There was a whole watch section of people on duty at the time of this event - why have we not heard from any of them or any of the ops at NOJ or NMO? The only person that heard anything or gave an account of the event is YOU? Surely there must be some one else out there with views or opinions or cold hard facts regarding this other than you. I stand by what I said. I was on watch Oct. 4 1980 keeping a full time log on 500khz. I was in direct communications with PJTA on 500khz. You can call me insane all you want - it will never change that fact.

Hey "John" - my name is none of your damn bidnes. I'm nobody from nowhere - just a guy who was on watch on Oct 4 1980 at Coast guard commsta San Fran./NMC watch section Delta. I'm not talking to you anyway dude, I'm talking to archivist Dave Ring - King of the airwaves. Join some facebook group? - I don't do facebook buddy. That's just you and your handlers. Ante up buddy - I want more from you. There are numerous other stations who must have heard my communications with PJTA. WHERE IS NMC'S LOGSHEET? When you were obtaining this "recording" why didn't you get NOJ's log sheet? You must have been perched on your limb waiting all these years for somebody to comment here - you were on this INSTANTLY! No time at all elapsed between the time I made my "review" and the time you responded - that strikes me as somewhat odd too! I stand by what I said. I WAS ON WATCH AT NMC ON OCT 4 1980 KEEPING A FULL TIME WATCH ON 500KHZ - I WAS IN DIRECT QSO WITH PJTA ON 500KHZ! Why is the burden of proof here on me. I defy you to prove me wrong - your mouth ain't no prayer book. You can say whatever you want - I WAS THERE. There were other people there with me. My only wish here is that I had made a copy of my log and obtained a recording of the event. Then I'd have something besides just my word. Let's address what you say about NMC not being involved. Why would a cw op sitting a watch on 500khz hear an auto alarm followed by a distress message and make no response to this at all - that's a direct question to you Dave.

Can't recall exactly Dave. As I remember it wasn't just an exchange of pleasantries. It involved qth, pob, nature of distress and any other pertinent details required by my section Chief. However, one look at my logsheet would clear all this up. How do you figure the entire Pacific ocean was under "control" of NOJ. I'm not aware of any law or regulation that states a reply to a distress call should only be given if your station is in a given geographical area. I spent 20 weeks in Radioman "A" school where I learned how to type and keep a log completely and accurately - both of which I did on the day in question. My duty was to transcribe whatever signals my equipment was capable of picking up. I had access to transmit/recv. equipment in Astoria Oregon which I used to communicate directly with PJTA. The geographical area where PJTA was located in when this event took place was well with NMC's range. NMC is physically right down the road from KPH. Back in the day the entire west coast was surveyed and the ideal location for a radio station was determined and this is where KPH was located - we were right down the road. The only way I would not transmit is by order of my direct superior. When PJTA sent his a/a and distress message I did my duty and responded. I "rogered" his distress call as my duty and responsibility dictated. I was in direct cw contact with PJTA on 500khz. We need to get my log sheet so we can clear this up. Call me a troll all you want. Produce some log sheets Dave (other than you and your buddy's). 350 vessels - hmmm. Of those 350 you should be able to produce at least a single one. Nevermind all that. Lets see NMC's log sheet - it'll have my signature on it and I can verify it's accuracy and completeness. Why was this account here not in the first person - the R/O of PJTA. Why was he not in collaboration with you on this? I'm sure he could have made a valuable contribution. So you're saying I made no response to PJTA's distress call because I wasn't supposed to? That's laughable Dave. I did in fact make a reply and later under the instruction and direct supervision of my watch section Chief made a re broadcast ddd sos on 500khz. Bring it on Dave. Me and you haven't even gotten started on this yet. WHERE IS NMC's LOG SHEET. Also - what would be the next logical step after making a reply to a distress message. Wouldn't it be to initiate some sort of response involving SAR resources? Or would I just sit at my posn. and say well good luck PJTA - I'll just keep my mouth shut now that I know you're in distress and the lives of hundreds of people hang in the balance. No I would do as I was trained to do - which was to notify my watch section Chief of exactly what was happening. Who would in turn start the ball rolling as his duty and responsibility dictated. As I recall he had equipment at his position that would enable him to monitor any circuit in the bldg. - so he was listening in the whole time. I'd be quite interested in talking with him.

Oh - by the by Dave. Who got rude with who. John attacked me first - all I was doing was defending myself!

One more thing before I go eat lunch buddy. I understand that PJTA emergency transmitter was heard by ZLB in New Zealand. Now you mean to tell me that NMC was too weak to be heard by PJTA? The range of 500khz is well over 1000 mi. during the day - A LOT further at night. Oh and I got wind of a little snippet of someone apologizing for not including the fact that PJTA called NMC directly. For the life of me I can't access the complete exchange though. Maybe John can determine who was on watch at KPH that night and we can get him involved here. Maybe just one person in the watch section at NMC could get involved. Somewhere out there are people who were there with me on that night. Catch ya' later buddy.

Yeah, I sent him an e-mail yesterday. Still no response. I joined a site to get in touch with ex military members too. No luck there yet. I've done due diligence to trying to get a copy of NMC's log. I'll have to see how to initiate a freedom of information act request too. A google search for Coast Guard archives bore little fruit too. Why is that? One would think it would be a doable thing - I mean to get a copy of a log sheet directly relating to a distress involving a passenger vessel. If one googles "ss prinsendam pjta distress call" the top result is "archive.com" (here) there is a snippet there that reads "I apologize about not including the part about pjta calling nmc but I never..." Who is that Dave? I'd love to explore that little exchange. I'm certainly no tech guru - but in my mind that means at some point in time someone somewhere typed those words here. Why were they deleted? I'm really curious as to why I can google "uscg commsta san francisco" and get nothing - zero, zip, nada, zilch. Why can't I access the little exchange you had with Brian Fisher a short while ago. Could you add some details of your conversation? He mentioned me by name.

It is easy for someone hiding their name or identity to take cheap shots. Man up and identify yourself or craw back under your rock. - K2TQN